MSF Medical coordinator: That convoy is bringing medical equipment and drugs, we have also blankets. in total, we have 12 tons arrived by plane from Ostende via Stavropol using trucks of the Dagestan Ministry of Health to bring the supplies to Khazavyurt Chechens watching
The supplies are mainly for the hospital which are receiving the wounded people here in Khazavyurt and in Gudermes in Chechnya. but for the moment we have not completed our survey of the small hospitals. we will certainly start the distribution in Khazavyurt, as soon as possible in fact, and also in Gudermes, but in co-ordination with the ICRC to know where they are ditributing to avoid a double distribution

Shamil Bassaiev: We did not intend to seize Budyonnovsk . We had another task. We wanted to get to Moscow. The main aim of our operation is to put an immediate end to the war in Chechnya, see the withdrawal of Russian troops and a resolution to the problem through a peace process.
If our aims are not met we will force the courageous Russian army to do this (kill innocent civilian hostages). Let them come and storm the place We are sick of watching our villages being bombed, and our women and children being killed.
Freedom, or death is our fate. Either we will be free or nothing. An honourable death is better than being slaves or allowing the annihilation of our people.

Presenter: "Two members of the humanitarian organisation Médecins Sans Frontières, a female logistician and her translator, have been kidnapped near Grozny, the capital. Their captors are claiming a ransom of one million francs. This comes as a shock, especially as MSF Belgium, working in Chechnya since the conflict began 16 months ago, has denounced the scorched earth policy the Russians pursue. Anne Gauthier managed to reach an MSF Belgium representative by phone from Brussels."

Doctor Renaud Tockert, MSF Belgium: "They were taken at around 10 am on the road out of Grozny. We've since received word via an intermediary suggesting that they’re OK, and a ransom demand. Our national coordinator went straight to the area where we think they're being held, looking to make contact with the kidnappers. In today's fragmented context there's a war and groups looking for independence, groups that are not fully under control. There's also a lot of banditry. We don't have a clear idea of who's behind the kidnapping, but it definitely isn't a member of civil society - the people we're been assisting for over a year and who regularly express their appreciation of our work."

Presenter: In Chechnya, civilians are trapped by the war in Grozny. The Russian army – which is planning an offensive to retake the city from the separatists – have given the population until tomorrow to leave. Thousands of residents left yesterday, but the Russians have blocked the exits from the Chechen capital, which they seal off in the afternoon, and many people remain. Stéphane Faure spoke with Médecins Sans Frontières member François Jean, who has just left Grozny.

François Jean: People have begun leaving their houses, leaving their cellars, and getting into their cars, waving white flags, driving around trying to find a way out. But there are still a huge number of civilians in the city who are obviously very scared of renewed fighting. Along with the fear, there’s amazing solidarity between people, especially during this period when there hasn’t been any water in the city for several days now. As a general rule, the fighting has caused enormous damage, especially downtown. Most of the hospitals have been destroyed or evacuated, and it’s extremely difficult to provide humanitarian medical assistance, which the city’s civilian population urgently needs.

Reporter: Do we know who controls Grozny, the separatists or the Russian army?

François Jean: In the neighbourhoods I was able to drive around, it really feels like the separatists control the city. There are still a lot of Russian troops in Grozny, though, confined mostly to their posts and their entrenched camps.

Presenter: Right now there’s some confusion in the Russian camp. The commander who announced that an offensive against Grozny was imminent was relieved of his post yesterday. General Lebed, who says he still wants a negotiated solution, will be returning to the Chechen capital today.

Ivan Rybkin, Secretary, Russian Security Council: I am simply convinced that the murder of doctors can only be a political murder. It is aimed at disrupting the peace process in Chechnya and at ending the preparation for elections there. Of that there is no doubt, no matter who is behind it.

Ilya Kapaev, resident of Novye Atagi: I don't blame them for wrapping up their work here, even though we needed them here. Free medical treatment in these times when no one is earning - well, their work was a wonderful thing. We can hope that they will return and that the culprits will be brought to justice

Magomed Magomadov, Deputy State Prosecutor of Chechnya: We organised the search for the bodies and as a result of the investigation we have found out the four heads belonged to the three citizens of Great Britain and one citizen of New Zealand. It was discovered that they were killed on the night of December 8th to 9th, 1998.

Mairbek Vachagaev, Chechen Presidential Spokesman: Today or tomorrow the bodies will be sent home with observance of all required formalities. That includes a memorial service by the priest of the Grozny Russian Orthodox Church. Of course we realise they're protestants, but the service will be carried out by the Orthodox church. In this case the priest believes it is necessary to carry out these rites. The Chechen side has nothing against it.

Luiza, Refugee: He (Kenny Gluck) was really one of us. We were forced to leave our homes and to live in these tents, in this place and we have found help only from international organisations. We know that he came to help us and he did help us. We are really sorry and offended that some bastards came along and kidnapped him.

Roza Supyeva, Doctor, Slepsovskaya Camp: Doctors without Borders (MSF) is a very powerful organisation and it is inconceivable that they would need to stop their work here. It would be a catastrophe. They should not feel they have to close down their work here.
He (Kenny Gluck) would visit the camp and he was interested in the problems we face and wanted to know how he could help. He worked from the heart.

Presenter: Good evening everyone. It has now been 24 hours, and several hundred people are still being held in what is Moscow’s largest-ever hostage situation. The commandos have given Vladimir Putin seven days to begin withdrawing Russian troops from Chechnya. They’re threatening to blow up the theatre if there’s a raid, and mines have been placed in the building, with explosives fixed to the seats.

Reporter: Four shots rang out at the end of the second act – four gunshots that transformed a hit musical into a tragedy for 700 audience members in this Moscow theatre. They have just been taken hostage by an invisible fifty-member Chechen suicide squad, some of them women, armed to the teeth. The building had already been packed with explosives by the time the army, police and security forces cordoned off the theatre. The few stagehands who managed to escape immediately have confirmed this. The suicide squad is demanding, and I quote, “the end of the Russian occupation” of the small Muslim republic in the Caucasus, and is ready to die killing their hostages. Twenty or so children and non-Russian audience members, perhaps 150 hostages, were released overnight, but it will take a long time to start negotiations, and so we wait.

Woman in tears: I want to see my son, I want to see my son.

Reporter: Early this morning, the anguish of families awaiting news is proof that the Chechen conflict has reached the heart of the Russian capital.

Freed hostage: They’re wearing explosives that are wired together, and they aren’t toys. They've also mined the theatre. If something happens, the people inside are screwed.

Reporter: And so that there'd be no misunderstanding, mid-afternoon the suicide squad released a young Russian woman bearing pleas from the helpless hostages, and her message was clear.

Freed hostage: It’s really hard for the men, women and children inside. I’m speaking for the hostages; you don’t know their names, but they’re counting on you. Be reasonable and stop the military operations. The powers that be have to find a political solution in Chechnya.

Reporter: But at evening’s end, the sight of a young woman’s body – apparently killed yesterday evening while trying to escape – being carried out is not a good sign. Exactly how many hostages remain in the theatre is not known.

A huge explosion in the middle of the night. The Russian special forces have just launched an assault against the theatre. Swiftly followed by a series of shots, a burst of gunfire that lasts 40 interminable minutes. The elite Russian soldiers have stormed every inch of the concrete building. Visibly shocked, the hostages manage to escape from the theatre. They must have inhaled the gas used by the Russian forces to neutralise the Chechen commando. The wails of ambulance sirens follow the gun fire. The first hostages are evacuated, most of them unconscious. Over 90 hostages die during the intervention, there are no foreigners among the victims. As the evacuations roll out, Russian officials justify the operation: the commando would have started shooting the hostages, that's what triggered the assault. Groggy hostages are transported to the hospital in buses.

A man: "During the negotiations, the terrorists started executing the hostages. Two people were killed, so a group of hostages tried to escape, but the terrorists started firing at anything that moved. In these circumstances, a group of special forces had to penetrate the theatre to free the hostages; they had to open fire to save lives."

When Russian television crews manage to enter the theatre, only rebel corpses remain. The hostages' corpses have been carefully removed. The commando members seemed to have been caught napping. Eighteen women were still wearing explosives that they hadn't had time to set off. Among the thirty two commandos killed was Mostar Baraiev, their chief. The quantity and force of the explosives discovered testify to the carnage that could have taken place. The images show two kidnappers being led away - the only two commando members who survived the assault. The flight of a few others - initially stated by the Russian security forces - was later dismissed.

Jean-Hervé Bradol: I don’t think it would be responsible to say right now that this is a criminal matter or a case of international terrorism. Official agencies are involved to some degree in this case, and we’ve got no concrete evidence that specific criminal groups are involved.

Presenter: His name is Arjan Erkel, he will be 34 years old in two days, he was head of mission for Médecins Sans Frontières Switzerland in Dagestan, where he was kidnapped over a year and a half ago. As the months go by, his family and friends increasingly fear for his life. MSF was poised to launch a major press campaign to raise public awareness but had to backtrack due to the family's reticence. And this is the crux of the matter: should we talk about these forgotten hostages, give them media coverage, or leave secret diplomacy to follow its course? Here is Jean-Philippe Chalers' report (spelling????)
Commentary: a giant photo, lest we forget Arjan Erkel's fate. Without news for 6 months, Médecins Sans Frontières Switzerland fears for the well being of its young Dutch member. The organisation wants to launch a major campaign for his release.
The members of an MSF crisis cell work on the kidnapping full time, studying the different approaches to adopt. It's been 19 months, and still no contact with the kidnappers. The different options remain unchanged.

Jean-Christophe Azé, crisis cell coordinator, MSF Switzerland: "The first step is to try and make contact, try and approach the kidnappers somehow. The second entails diplomatic moves with Western and Russian governments. The third is public communications, which end up being sporadic as they are episode-based, so as to anchor the case into the media, ensure that no one forgets and above all maintain momentum and boost the diplomatic manoeuvres with a little public pressure.
Commentary: to hone its strategy, MSF is taking advice from an ex-hostage. Vincent Cochetel was kidnapped in Chechnya in January 1988 when he was working for UNHCR. He spent 11 months in captivity. Following French diplomatic pressure, the Russians eventually secured his release via a risky military operation. For him, the hope of release keeps a hostage going."

Vincent Cochetel: "We assume that our family and our colleagues are doing all they can, our governments are taking action, that we won't be abandoned, that we're not going to end up a morbidity figure buried at the foot of an annual report. We hope for all this, and rely on support from our colleagues, from everyone. I think that Arjan knows how MSF works, understands its culture. He knows he will not be abandoned, that action is underway. What might be harder for him as time ticks on is establishing a routine, finding a daily rhythm, trying to contain his fears, his anxieties, his stress and the moments of being sick of it all. Counting the days becomes a total misery because you miss so much, you miss all sorts of important dates. You try not to give yourself a timeline but one automatically sets in, it's a biological thing too."

Commentary: "In Arjan Erkel's case, after over 18 months in detention, there's no room for error in the future steps to take."

Vincent Cochetel: "The priority is keeping him alive. But we must also equip ourselves for whatever comes up. And I hope that nothing will be attempted that endangers his life."

Commentary: "This is Arjan's family's biggest fear. Until now, Arjan Erkel's father has always supported MSF's actions, despite his reluctance to question the Russians' responsibilities. He is more comfortable with discrete diplomacy, for example via Swiss assistance – it has raised the case with Russia several times. But now the family's put its foot down: out of the question to do anything that might annoy President Poutine before the presidential elections. We went back to see MSF 3 days after our first visit. Following discussions with the family, the planned campaign has been put on ice."

Jean-Christophe Azé, crisis cell coordinator, MSF Switzerland: "The family's opinion counts. We may not do a press conference, we won't be too pro-active about this affair. It's just about striking a balance. We’ll try and do this while pursuing our goal of securing Arjan's swift release. We don't know who's holding Arjan, who's behind this whole affair, so we can imagine that adopting a strong line against such and such a person in this situation could backfire, have negative or even disastrous consequences for Arjan. There's always risk involved, elements we can’t control or take the measure of. No one can, not really. But one thing’s for sure: we fully understand the family's opting for zero risk. In other words, we won't take any risks."

TV presenter: In Rwanda, increasingly horrified witnesses observe the massive exodus of civilians fleeing the civil war to seek refuge in neighbouring Burundi. We know about the ethnic war between Hutus and Tutsis, but there's a political war raging too. Patricia Coste:

Commentary: "There's an exodus from Rwanda. An exodus on such a scale that it's been qualified as a major humanitarian disaster by the Red Cross. Half a million people are fleeing the country, crossing the rivers. They haven't all managed to reach Burundi, so they're flooding back into Tanzania, where the HCR is reporting lines of people eight kilometres long.
In the camps, it’s always the same wounded, the bandaged neck, hiding a machete cut that missed its mark. In Rwanda, the massacres continue. According to one of the rare European witnesses still on the ground, an ICRC delegate we've just reached in Kigali, a new massacre has just taken place in Gitarama, south of the capital, where the provisional government is currently headquartered:

The ICRC delegate: "I think there's not a corner of Rwanda that will escape these massacres. It's an ethnically-driven, politically-driven manhunt. »
Commentary: For political reasons, the refugees dare to start talking. Including this man, one of the rare opponents of the ruling party that managed to escape:

Alphonse Nkubito: "It's not ethnic massacres, it's a political operation. It's a political game that's being played out between those who don't want democratic change, in other words the President's circle, and the opposition. The truth is that the President's circle wanted to liquidate, extinguish, all these democratic leanings, and it's got its way. I'm telling you, if they catch me they'll kill me, even now. And I'm Hutu. »

Commentary: Hutu, like this woman, the former prime minister, massacred right at the start by extremist elements of her own ethnic group. Extremists who didn't want to share power with the Tutsis. So the democratic Hutus have joined the persecuted Tutsis in the wave of death and exodus. »

TV presenter: The United Nation's General Secretary, Mr. Boutros Ghali, is calling for the use of force to re-establish calm in Rwanda, torn apart by civil war. Hundreds of thousands of Rwandans continue to pour out of the country. Philippe Gaillard reports, one of the rare Western journalists we can still reach in Kigali, the capital:

Philippe Gaillard (ICRC delegate): We've made contact with the authorities in Kigali, who are currently doing what’s required by passing messages via Rwanda's two main radio stations, the national station and the ‘radio-télévision libre des Milles Collines’, asking people to calm down, respect civilians, arrest suspects - if there are any, handing them over to the appropriate authorities, and lastly to respect the wounded, whoever they might be, and help the Rwandan Red Cross and International Committee of the Red Cross do their work. It's clear that the message is getting through, it shows. Yesterday, we evacuated thirteen wounded people, today eleven - some of whom reached our hospital by themselves. It's a good sign, compared to what we've seen in the previous days. »

TV presenter: The fighting continues in Rwanda, particularly in the capital, Kigali, where the rebels are trying to dislodge the last governmental forces in an attempt to save human lives. This morning in Paris, a first for the humanitarian organisation Médecins Sans Frontières as it issues an unequivocal call for an armed intervention. Meanwhile France, as you know, is due to transport a humanitarian convoy from tomorrow on. Report by Valérie Fourniou:

Commentary: "Under duress, MSF has had to leave the refugee camp of Benako in Tanzania. The Rwandans have seized power, the same ones who organised the massacres in their own country. And for the first time, the French doctors have put their humanitarian reserve to one side:

Philippe Biberson (MSF): "It's logical to call for an armed intervention to stop the massacre because humanitarian workers can't do it themselves. We're not looking for an armada to interpose between two fronts. What's needed, in our opinion, is something along the lines of the United Nations forces known as UNAMIR, the contingent currently stationed in Kigali. We think that if UNAMIR was strengthened, if it was given a minimum of resources to work with, it could be effective. »

A dawning realisation or a display of powerlessness from an NGO who only recently denounced military involvement in humanitarian affairs? »

We're in Honduras, a few kilometres from the border with El Salvador. For the last four months, a Médecins sans Frontières team has been assisting a population traumatised by the latest events in El Salvador, now refuge in the region of La Virtud.

MSF: "In the past, the village of La Virtud was totally neglected by the Honduran government. It’s true, it’s very remote. The villagers aren't used to outsiders at all. When we showed up, even though people were friendly, it was pretty clear they had little idea why we were here. So, our first challenge was integrating into the different local groups. We made contact with the military, the authorities and the grass roots organisations. »

It's 7am. Like every Wednesday, a US helicopter has just made contact with La Virtud's military chief. As well as his work as a doctor, the team often relies on Willy to handle its relationship with the local authorities.

Vincent Jeannerod, MSF: "In July 1980, MSF started looking at El Salvador. A team - which I was part of - left in August to make a quick assessment of assistance possibilities for the Salvadorans. After three weeks of investigations and meetings with all the humanitarian groups and key political figures - from the government and the opposition - we concluded that it was too dangerous to work inside the country. So we contacted the High Commission for Refugees and a humanitarian organisation called CEDEN ("Evangelical Community for National Development and Emergencies"), which we'd already worked with in '71 during Hurricane Fifi, and with CEDEN we explored all 200 km of the border strip, where some 15 000 Salvadoran refugees had settled. Three weeks later, an MSF team of four set up in La Virtud village, providing healthcare services that had been non-existent for the previous eight months. Their work was mainly seeing to the health needs of Hondurans and Salvadorans in the health centre, and above all, going into all the little hamlets of five or six Honduran families, where another ten or twenty Salvadoran families had amassed, and treating these people that were hidden away, terrorised by their experiences on the other side of the border. »

Commentary: The team is currently made up of three doctors and two nurses. They divide up activities between them on a daily basis, covering both the hamlets and consultations in La Virtud's health centre. Let's take a look at a place known as La Majada.

Bruno Bordelin, MSF: "Here a home built of packed earth and tiles which previously housed one Honduran family now houses seven, eight, nine or ten Salvadoran families - all looked after really well by the Hondurans. This situation actually involves the diseases of poverty and under-development rather than any disease particular to this country. The Salvadorans don't want to settle in the camps, they prefer being scattered around the countryside. Many of them are scarred by the war, traumatised. There's high numbers of psychosomatic disorders, and shock. They were shocked by the war, they're scared. They've got highly varied disorders that are absolutely not organic. They’re just suffering from .... how can I put this? From fear. They're fearful, these people. »

MSF: "The number of refugees has dropped recently as they're scared of the Honduran army. They've even more scattered across the mountain. Here, we're close to the road. People decided they needed to go wider afield. »

MSF: "We're in a transmission period right now because until recently there was only the health centre. It's been running for a few years and it’s only staffed by a nursing assistant whose role is limited to distributing medicines to patients. As from this week, this hospital - funded by MSF - is finished and has opened its doors. We've got four hospitalisation rooms, two big and two small, which hold a maximum of fifteen beds. There's also a laboratory and another room that could be set up as a small surgery and delivery room, if we get the material we need. »

Commentary: Over 30,000 people were killed during a civil war that has left El Salvador, a republic in Central America, drenched in blood since the early 1980s. Tens of thousands of people have fled villages under attack and demolished by armed groups. The innocent victims of these attacks, uprooted from their homes, are mostly campesinos - rural people who live dotted around the countryside.
Many of the fugitives managed to reach the border and find shelter in neighbouring countries.

A man: "It was a nightmare crossing the border. It was around 1pm. Just as we were reaching the Lempa river, we heard helicopters and planes coming our way. When we were in the water, trying to reach the opposite bank, they started to bomb us and fire at us, it was horrendous. We tried to help the women and children, everyone was crying and screaming. »

Commentary: A big refugee camp sprung up near the village of La Virtud, on the banks of the Lempa river that separates Honduras from El Salvador.
The sudden influx of Salvadorans shattered the area's tranquillity. Even the local residents' safety was threatened. After several days' walk, hiding to escape patrols and with virtually nothing to eat or drink, the refugees arrived in a state of total exhaustion. As always, it was the children who suffered the most. The worst off were transported to health centres where a team from the French association Médecins sans Frontières awaited them.

International and governmental organisations provided the camp's population with basic necessities. The camp was improved, drainage channels dug and plastic sheeting distributed to the refugees for their shelters.
As well as normal rations, special food was distributed to malnourished children. The camp settled down, life took on a semblance of normality. But both refugees and volunteer workers, caught between two armies, lived in a permanent state of insecurity. Yvonne Dilay of Caritas spent several months at la Virtud: 

Yvonne (Caritas): "When we were over there, Salvadoran helicopters appeared and machine-gunned the river and both its banks, on the Salvadoran and the Honduran side. We were crossing it at the time. Everyone ran to take cover behind rocks and trees.

Were you scared of being hit?

Yvonne: Yes, I thought we were all going to die. »

Right from the start of the exodus, the UN High Commissioner called for the Salvadorans to be located at a distance from the border - a usual precautionary measure. The conditions went sharply downhill so it became vital to transfer people further inland. But despite the threats hanging over their lives, the refugees were reluctant to leave La Virtud.
The camp at La Virtud is now deserted. But, further to the east, at Colomoncague, a large concentration of refugees can still be sighted from El Salvador. The protection of newly arrived refugees has become a necessity. Four HCR patrol agents, non-armed, provide an international presence over the two hundred kilometre border strip: 

HCR: "Following incidents on this side of the border that cost both refugee and volunteer workers’ lives, the High Commissioner for Refugees decided to post patrol agents here. My colleagues and I are charged with patrolling the whole border and hooking up with Salvadorans trying to reach Honduras. It's a delicate task. We have Land Rovers, we can rent horses, we've got our legs. Here, we're exactly three kilometres away from the Salvadoran border. It's really easy for refugees to know that we're here, that HCR is here. There's quite a bit of communication between the two sides. As soon as we hear about their arrival, we go to the meeting point. Both sides know where it is. And we wait for them there. Our main job is to ensure that they are treated properly and human rights are respected. Once we've taken them in, we escort them to a reception centre where they're fed and given everything they need. Then we steer them inland as fast as possible so as to remove them from the dangers they're looking to escape. Here, at Colomoncagua, there's now around 6000 refugees. And they're still coming into other border areas every day. We have to stay on our toes. We have to be there when the refugees cross. We have to keep our eyes wide open and gather any information that helps us to meet up with them as soon as they've crossed over and ensure that things go as smoothly for them as possible."

A good number of refugees have been in Colomoncagua for over two years. Despite their precarious circumstances, they’re living up to their reputation as capable, hard-working people. They've cleared hills covered with trees and undergrowth. They've laboured hard and sown crops on the fertile terraces. Now they've got fresh vegetables and cereals on top of the basic rations provided by international aid.
A good part of their work is carried out with tools they make by hand. They’ve built warehouses to protect stocks from wild boar and other animals. Most of the camps' population are women and children. They're the ones who do the communal cooking, prepare the daily meals - wheat cakes and black beans. In this pottery workshop, women are making earthenware pots, plates and jars to conserve the food.
Alongside a vast literacy program set up by volunteer organisations, a refugee teacher gives daily lessons. Given the number of children, three different groups rotate through the classroom.

Yet beneath the calm appearances, fear and insecurity reign. Colomoncagua is now situated so close to the border. There's plans to transfer the refugees to the interior from here too - a new site is being prepared.
Nueva Esperanza, new hope. This is the name refugees have given to the new camp in Mesa Grande, some fifty kilometres away from the border. Now that the tensions reigning in the border camps are just a bad memory, the refugees can at last find some peace. Bit by bit a daily routine sets in. Yet the fact remains that the upkeep of over 9000 people living in such an isolated spot presents a considerable challenge. So Mesa Grande is only an intermediary step, the kindling of new hope. Indeed, on this plateau, there is only enough workable land for a few hundred families to live on. In liaison with the government, HCR is looking to buy land elsewhere for more refugees to cultivate. The sooner this happens the better. Because these people, who have lost everything, only ask for one thing: to get back to work and through their own labours, cover their needs.

TV presenter: Médecins sans Frontières celebrates its fifteenth anniversary. Fifteen years of volunteer missions around the world to assist victims of catastrophe and war. We have already shown you two reports on what's happening in El Salvador and to conclude tonight's enquiry, Jean-Luc Mertas and Patrick Boileau take us to the neighbouring country of Honduras, where many refugees from El Salvador have fled. They live in camps, like the one we're about to see:

Avelino, MSF: “My name is Avelino. I've been working in this camp for six months. It's a Médecins sans Frontières program. It's also my first mission. Our relationship with the refugees has changed a lot over the last six months. At first, people were distant, a bit wary about airing their problems. We had to work really long and hard to gain their trust so they opened up a bit. I think I've formed an idea of who they are, which for me is really important. ”

Commentary: Last August, the Honduran army opened fire on the refugee camp. Avelino decided to stay put. A few days later, a child, belonging to this woman, died in Avelino's arms. The Honduran police threw him into jail for voluntary homicide. The camp mobilised, the mother testified, Avelino was released. Doctors and refugees are now on equal footing. One of the biggest issues for Avelino, as for many others, has been avoiding a paternalistic attitude.

Avelino, MSF: "It's the easiest attitude to adopt. Obviously, things are ambiguous here. But these people are like you and me. But in a different country, in a different social, political, psychological situation, completely different. I think that working with them calls for liking them, on principle. But not being paternalistic. For me, these people are the most peaceful I have ever known. They've abandoned everything. And they need courage and strength of character to cross these mountains, with the mines and the soldiers. And once they get here, they're more or less imprisoned, while all they're looking for is a bit of freedom and peace. »

Commentary: Avelino's leaving. The time has come for presents, goodbyes, poems written by the children, dances during which the faces bear the daily masks of an uprooted people's sadness. For Avelino, it's a happy return to Spain, and the start of memories.

Avelino: "I won't ever forget life here. Impossible". »

Philippe Biberson (MSF): "We've called for a halt to the genocide. And we think, and will continue to think, that there's only one way to bring this about - through the use of force. We needed to oppose, restrain the hand of the people carrying out these massacres. Yet apparently this hasn't yet happened because the genocide continues, the militia are still very active and the people responsible for all this are still around. As this operation has already failed in this regard, its continuation in one form or another just complicates things, and in my opinion will keep seriously complicating the situation from a humanitarian point of view."

Bernard Grangeon (MDM): "From the moment that France got its army involved, it just fell back on its old political ways - it has never known any other - so its old and disastrous ways kicked in, in Rwanda on this occasion, but elsewhere as well. In other words, supporting the regime in place, which on this occasion is a dictatorship, and militias who in this example are murderers."

TV presenter: Of course humanitarian organisations are launching emergency operations. Carole Caumont and Gilles Marinet followed the work of Médecins sans Frontières staff in Paris and Bordeaux throughout the day: 

Commentary: "More than 3000 calls in barely 24 hours. Médecins sans Frontières' reception has been responding to offers of help since yesterday. Doctors, nurses, donors, and a mass of individuals who are looking for ways to help the Rwandan refugees."

Bernard Pecoul (MSF): "We had to set up 40 telephone lines to cope with all the calls. Our reception desk couldn’t handle it. So there's an initial contact with people, a first sort through, an initial questionnaire. And depending on the outcome, either we fix a recruitment interview or we give out information."

An MSF woman questioning a volunteer: "So you’ve got a rough idea of what you're likely to do if you leave?"

Man: "Yes."

Commentary: "On the floor above, interviews have already started with volunteer doctors while the teams about to leave receive fresh information from the field. 35 tons of material already sent from Bordeaux this evening - emergency health kits, vaccination material - for transportation to the Bukavu region."

Bernard Chomilier (MSF): "According to our sources, there are tens of thousands of people leaving Goma for Bukavu. So we’re hoping to install the technical set-up, people and equipment needed to avoid a cholera epidemic flaring up in Bukavu, because it's pretty certain that the refugees will leave and bring cholera with them."

Commentary: "Two MSF doctors and two logisticians will accompany the freight, which involves heavy cost. Médecins sans Frontières hopes to raise 50 million francs to finance its work in Rwanda for the next three months."

TV presenter: "Good evening ladies and gentlemen. The veritable human disaster unrolling in Rwanda as we speak is without a doubt the worst we've seen this century. This is why France 2 has decided to spend time with you this evening trying to understand the awful reality of what's happening on the ground. What efforts are being made by Western countries? And how can you, if you so wish, participate in the race against time to save the refugees? The emergency is in fact twofold. It first of all involves a push to limit the cholera epidemic, which has left hundreds of dead in its wake during the last three days alone. And then - and this is the message we're passing to the United Nations’ decision makers - the Rwandans must go home as quickly as possible, and soon, but what must the conditions be? This is the crux of it. Once again, in Goma, the town bordering Rwanda and Zaire, the refugees and those trying to save them have been through another day in hell. Dorothée Ollieric and Alain Saingt."

Commentary: "For them, the exodus stops here. They're only a few kilometres from the Rwandan border, but they're the weakest, and they're the ones hit by cholera first. Yesterday, 25 refugees from Igangi camp died, there were twice as many today. According to humanitarian organisations, if we don't take action, they'll be 100 000 cholera victims in under three weeks. As things stand, people are dying in silence, at the feet of people too often themselves the living dead. In this city of death, we don't look at corpses, we don't talk any more, we don't even cry any more:

Sœur Sabina Iragui (Fille de la Charité): "There's a lot of patients dying because the cholera outbreak’s happening when they're particularly undernourished. They've been here for a week, you know, and they haven't received any humanitarian aid."

Commentary: "At the exit to the camp, we take the road to the north, a road as interminably long as the throes of death. Everywhere we look, the shadow of death, bodies that aren't even being buried anymore. Four kilometres from Igangi camp, we arrive at Munigi centre. A handful of humanitarian workers for patients that are dying in droves."

Catherine Lefèvre, MSF: "Yesterday evening we had 500 people like Patience. Now we have 1000. 200 people died here yesterday, just in this centre. Today, it'll be 400, maybe more. It's getting worse and worse. Apparently the situation's going downhill in Kubumba too. So if it's the same thing in Kubumba, what's already a disaster will become even worse."

Commentary: "They've fled the chaos of war, now they must flee from this disease."

A young refugee woman: "My sister died of cholera three days ago and I've been looking after her baby. But he hasn't eaten anything for three days, not even a drop of milk. I don't know what to do. I don't want to go back to Rwanda, I'm too scared."

Commentary: "Fear, rumours, a lot of people don't know that the war's over in Rwanda. They're still talking about the massacres, about the ditches they say every Tutsi is digging in his garden so as to bury the Hutus. As we advance along the road, we understand how much this crowd is manipulated, how everybody has completely lost their way."

Journalist to a refugee: "What's more dangerous for you, cholera or the RPF?"

The refugee: "Well, when you get cholera, there's steps you can take. You can get cholera, but if you're lucky you can get treatment. But going back to Kigali's really dangerous because the Inkotanyi show no mercy."

Commentary: "At the 23rd kilometre, we've seen the hills of Kibumba and a tidal wave of humanity, in exodus. 100 000, 500 000, 1 000 000, whatever the figures, whatever the ethnic groups involved, solutions must be found. And as if things aren’t already bad enough, the cholera leaves us little room for hope."

TV presenter: Rony Brauman, good evening, you're the former president of Médecins sans Frontières, joining us directly from Montpellier. The French government wants to increase its medical aid. Philippe Douste Blazy is heading for Goma as we speak. The United States has announced that it will provide a total of 76 million dollars in aid. In your opinion, has the world got moving now? Has the degree of urgency been understood?

Rony Brauman: Yes, it would seem so, we're at last seeing the international community come to life. But I would just like to correct one little error I heard in the report you just delivered. The people we're currently seeing in Zaire aren't the people who've fled the massacres. These are people who were urged to flee Rwanda and take refuge in either Tanzania, Zaire or the French security zones so that the new government in Rwanda has no people left to govern i.e. the country it holds power over is emptied of its people. In short, it's about creating sanctuaries from which this government will rebuild itself - I'm talking about the former government, sorry - to re-wrest control of Rwanda. So there are currently two emergencies, of equal importance. The first is the one you've shown - treating these people who are innocent and dying. We do indeed need to provide them with food, drinking water systems, nutritional centres and rehydration stations such as Dr. Vasset was describing a minute ago. It’s vital to react to this emergency now, and humanitarian organisations, governments and international organisations are moving into action.

TV presenter: That's the first emergency.

Rony Brauman: Right. There is another one, which is just as present and should be considered just as urgent – it’s the refugees' return to their country. Why? Partly because it's not just not an option to set up bases that are so volatile, so explosive, in countries that are themselves powder kegs. Secondly, because in Rwanda, the crops are dying in the fields and if they're not harvested, another famine will ravage the country. And thirdly, last but by no means least: Rwanda needs to get back on its feet, collect itself, re-build its identity, and this will only happen if people resettle themselves peacefully.

Presenter: But Rony Brauman, if the refugees are to return, isn't a prior political solution needed to provide them with political security?

Rony Brauman: There's already the beginnings of a political solution. The government that's set itself up in Kigali is a government that's guaranteed, promised, the refugees that they need not be concerned - at least, not those who took no part in the major massacres, because it goes without saying that the warranties are for the innocent - they cannot exclude justice being done. Security cannot be put in the balance with ensuring justice is done. We need both security for people who've done no wrong, and justice for the murderers. There's a lot of people in these camps, because it also bears noting that the sites we’ve just seen in Tanzania, the French security zones and Zaire are literally locked down by the militia responsible for the genocide. The former government, responsible for the genocide, is building itself back up in these sanctuaries. So we must avoid setting up camps in these regions and everything must be done - it's an international responsibility of the utmost importance - to ensure, as quickly as possible, and I mean today and during the days to come, that a maximum number of refugees return to their villages and revert to a normal life. Then, as a second step, and here again speed is of the essence, in the weeks to come we need a process - a real process that is worthy of the name - put into place to judge the main guilty parties in the genocide. This will be hard to bring about because full justice is far from guaranteed, obviously. But the main guilty parties - those who launched the calls for hate and extermination via the famous radio station Milles Collines, the main leaders of the militia who have massacred hundreds of thousands of people, the Presidential guard (that France helped maintain) and a good part of the police force - these people must be judged.

TV presenter: Rony Brauman, the doctor turns prosecutor.

Rony Brauman: No, I'm not talking as a doctor here, I'm talking as a citizen, as an ardent admirer of, a supporter of democracy and justice. This is not about being a prosecutor, it's about calling for a minimum of justice to be done. If this process is not set up, the hate will continue to fester, seeping through the entire country and plunging it into a new cycle of violence, outbursts and reprisals like the ones we're already seen. So the refugees’ return, justice and assistance in re-starting the economy - these are the priorities, and they're just as important as the humanitarian priority that's so evident today. 

TV presenter: Thank you Rony Brauman, you're in Montpellier, we should mention that that you're working on a book on Rwanda, due to come out soon, which explains your knowledge and why you’re with us.

TV presenter: "The United Nations High Commission says it is concerned by but not in despair about this situation, in stark contrast to the relatively positive feedback from most humanitarian organisations about Operation Turquoise and its roll out these last few days. Philippe Rochot and Vincent Maillard"

Commentary: "The departure of the last 500 French soldiers from Rwanda leaves humanitarian organisations to cope with the immense staffing and logistics problems on their own. No one's contesting the thousands of human lives saved due to the French armed forces' efforts. But according to organisations such as Médecins sans Frontières, which has 300 staff on the ground, France should be doing more than just assistance operations for populations in distress."

Bernard Pecoul (MSF): "The soldiers were useful and I believe they did a proper job of the humanitarian part of their work. But we also believe that when states become involved, when the international community becomes involved, it can't just intervene from a humanitarian angle because that completely blurs the essence of the problem, which must be kept in sight."

Commentary: In the Goma camps, people aren't just dying of cholera, they’ve got other diseases too, just as in the humanitarian zone. For Médecins du Monde, the French soldiers have left too quickly, there's been no time to prepare handovers.

Vincent Faber, Médecins du Monde: "The departure of the French today is just the logical conclusion of political ambiguity in that they've had limited impact from the start, limited by the RPF because they never had any legitimacy in the RPF's eyes, so there you go. They’ve had limited impact from the start, unable to really prepare a handover of their humanitarian work, which is what they came here to do, don't forget."

Commentary: But the departure of the French is felt hardest in logistics terms. Small organisations such as Atlas are now having to face transport problems alone, whereas previously the French army arranged convoys for most of the food and medical aid. Now they're desperately searching for convoy leaders and logistics personnel.

Hervé Dubois, Atlas president: "We realised that there was such a deficit in transportation terms that funding was required for trucks, stocks and telecommunications installation. All logistics infrastructure has been funded, we're starting to set it up, and we need to double our efforts in the Cyangugu area."

Commentary: All humanitarian organisations are currently accepted by the new authorities in Rwanda, which allows them to work in the former French zone, but population movements remain hard to predict.

TV presenter: The staff of Médecins sans Frontières have had enough. The organisation has decided to leave the Rwandan refugee camp in Bukavu, eastern Zaire. Médecins Sans Frontières states that security is not guaranteed, and voices its revolt at the indifference shown by the international community. Isabelle Baechler:

Commentary: Nearly one million Hutu Rwandan refugees in a camp in Zaire, where emergency is ‘under the thumb’. Here's the situation humanitarian workers are facing. A population, over-estimated in number, that doesn't receive food aid directly. All aid is filtered by the leaders, to the point where children still suffer from malnutrition despite the significant excess of distributed food. Using intimidation tactics, aid is diverted to the Rwandan administration, the very same administration that ordered and perpetrated the genocide this spring and which has re-built itself in the camps. Local officials and militia make the law.

Dominique Martin, MSF: "The risk is that it prepares a new offensive against Rwanda and a new genocide. And as a humanitarian organisation, we cannot accept to be mixed up – from near or far - with such a risk, which seems increasingly real to us. There are times when you have to make choices and we think that today in Bukavu, the reasonable choice for us to make, where our responsibility lies, is to leave the camp."

Commentary: Just as they've left Cambodia, Ethiopia and Honduras in the past, MSF France humanitarian workers don't want to be manipulated by the former leaders of the massacre. Their 19 expatriates will have left Bukavu by tomorrow noon, with heavy hearts, needless to say. They're leaving behind them 150 jobless employees, but above all the very real distress of the refugees.

TV presenter: But first we’re going to Srebrenica in east Bosnia, where French General Philippe Morillon still is. We thought he was being held by the town’s Muslim population, as that’s what was reported in the first news we received. But this afternoon General Morillon has supposedly said he’s staying of his own free will to protect the inhabitants.

Commentary: The voice picked up this afternoon by an amateur radio enthusiast in Zagreb has been analysed by military wiretapping specialists at UNPROFOR headquarters in the Croatian capital. It’s being processed now and its authenticity checked. The message – apparently sent from the Muslim enclave in Srebrenica in east Bosnia that has been besieged for the past 11 months by the Serbs – has already been authenticated by General Morillon’s aides in Sarajevo and is indeed from the commander of the United Nations Protection Force in Bosnia. Its message is clear. Philippe Morillon denies being held against his will in Srebrenica, he is remaining voluntarily. But several UNPROFOR and UNHCR sources stated this morning that civilian Muslims had been forcibly detaining him since last Friday. General Morillon, who we see here filmed on Thursday evening in Zvornik, had said he was going to Srebrenica to negotiate with the Serb forces the evacuation of casualties from the blockaded town. His mission was also to get humanitarian convoys blocked for several days by the Serbs into Srebrenica. It would appear that General Morillon failed in the negotiations and Srebrenica’s 75,000 inhabitants have not been provided with supplies from the convoy. The Serb offensive on the Muslim enclave has intensified. Morillon indicated in his message that he was staying to help allay people’s fears. Confirmed by a UNPROFOR officer in Sarajevo.
UNPROFOR officer: He’s in good health and doesn’t feel threatened. He has chosen to stay put in Srebrenica.

TV presenter: So, Gérard Sebag, this leaves us somewhat intrigued. Major Robert C. has just told us live from Zagreb that he’s being detained.

Gérard Sebag: You’re right. The situation is rather muddled and indeed odd as the first information out of Srebrenica suggested that General Morillon had been detained (not to say taken hostage) by some of the population who were pressuring him to give guarantees on three points. First, a ceasefire, second, the deployment of United Nations observers, and third, that airdrops of food and drugs would continue. Prevented from leaving the town, General Morillon is apparently trying to make the best of things. Those are the words of a Western diplomat we were able to contact by telephone. So it looks as if he’s decided to stay in Srebrenica and attempt the impossible – meaning, continuing negotiations on lifting the siege of the town with the Serb militias and the town’s authorities, but they haven’t come to anything yet. What is certain is that this latest development in Bosnia is a severe blow to the credibility and effectiveness of the United Nations – credibility because it is very hard to cross a starved town and then leave behind wounded people, women and children with nothing achieved. And effectiveness, because the United Nations forces in former Yugoslavia find themselves once again in an impasse that General Morillon may well find difficult to get out of.

TV presenter: So, Rony Brauman, let me first remind viewers that you are president of Médecins Sans Frontières. You and your organisation were in Croatia at the beginning of the conflict, then former Yugoslavia and now Bosnia. Let’s start with how did we allow this to this happen?

Rony Brauman: I think it was an attempt to replace a kind of fundamental political responsibility with a strategy of the lesser evil. It was allowed to happen because we were following on the heels of the Serb nationalists, picking up the pieces, bandaging wounds and patching up some of the casualties. That’s it. Our responsibilities were readily abdicated, probably by invoking a whole slew of pertinent historical, diplomatic and political reasons, but the facts are there and, as the report shows only too well, we European citizens, our governments, our Western countries, have totally abdicated the responsibility that was ours to prevent the deployment of a strategy of racial domination and territorial conquest right at the heart of Europe. This failure, as we are now witnessing, is barbaric.

TV presenter: Do you consider that the entire Western political establishment has given itself a good conscience by leaving it to humanitarian organisations to take action on the ground?

Rony Brauman: Yes, never in my life have I been as struck by what could be called the ‘humanitarian alibi’ in Bosnia. Seeing in Bosnia all the armoured vehicles and the tanks, all the soldiers, all the aid organisations, all these worthy sentiments in a kind of hellish whirl to make it look like something’s being done. But nothing’s being done. We manage to get to a few towns and enclaves, but not very many, while the war continues to rage relentlessly in 90% of the country. That’s what’s happening in Srebrenica now, exactly like what happened in other towns in east Bosnia, and nobody’s saying a word.

TV presenter: And Croatia…

Rony Brauman: And Croatia, like in Vukovar and Osijek. We had teams in Vukovar who were attacked by Serb nationalists when they were evacuating casualties. We’ve got a surgical team in Srebrenica operating as we speak. Well, I don’t know what’s going to become of them in the next few hours, or tomorrow or the next day. Perhaps they’ll be forced to flee in a panic, probably along with tens of thousands of people who have sought refuge in Srebrenica. You should know that Srebrenica’s population is 6,000, and that now more like 30 or 50,000 people are there, refugees from other towns in the vicinity who’ve ended up there.

TV presenter: So seen from the ground, does that mean Srebrenica is going to fall in a few hours, that the Serbs aren’t necessarily going to exterminate the people in the town, but are going to ask humanitarian organisations to evacuate them?

Rony Brauman: I believe there are two reasons why they won’t exterminate them. Firstly, it’s not in their strategy. Serb nationalism isn’t a Hitlerian enterprise; it’s not a strategy of extermination. It’s a strategy of terror, of expulsion. What they want is to drive out all the non-Serbs from all the places they lay claim to. That’s the first reason why they’re not going to exterminate them. But the fact remains that when people wanting to show their determination are prepared to kill, if that means killing several hundreds or thousand of people, they’ll do it. We saw it happen in Vukovar. The second reason why they’re not going to do it is because we’re going to do it; Western governments, the United Nations will do the job for them. Humanitarian organisations are really valuable to ethnic cleansing, and that’s why we feel like the world has gone crazy, that all sense of values has been over-turned. To be inhuman, cowardly, adopt the guise of a big shot, well, here’s the answer – the humanitarian worker, the perfect mask for our abdication and our cowardice.

Commentary: Far from the negotiating tables, against a background of ethnic cleansing and persistent bombing, the insanity of war continues to crush Bosnia. Although declared a safe area, in the middle of April, the Gorazde enclave and its 65,000 inhabitants were caught in a barrage of fire. Trapped by the Serb artillery but also by the indecision of the international community, two Médecins Sans Frontières volunteers are witness to the demise of the enclave. The Bosnian surgical teams in the hospital are operating non-stop.

Commentary: On 17 April, Serb troops entered the town and, on 19 April, the hospital collapsed under the bombs. 65,000 desperate people crowded into cellars are certain of just one thing; they can expect nothing from the United Nations or the rest of the world.

Commentary: "The courage of the people here never ceases to surprise us,” wrote the Médecins Sans Frontières team. "The town is lost; everyone know it. The choice is simple. Die or go somewhere else, who knows where. Despite it all, we’re trying to hold our heads high, we’re surviving in the hope that we’ll soon be able to live. Tell the surgeon and the anaesthetist to go home, there’s nothing more to be done here than witness the agony of a people who were simply asking to live."

Commentary: Have these cries of distress been heeded? The threat of NATO airstrikes, as in Sarajevo, has led to a retreat by the Serb troops – but for how long?

TV journalist: The main news tonight is the liberation of Srebrenica. Proclaimed solely by the Serbs, this is one more defeat for the UN and the international community. The peacekeepers had to pull back from the area declared “safe” by the United Nations in 1993 and this morning tens of thousands of people fled from the zone. Combining tones of threat and victory, a Bosnian-Serb general declared earlier today that he would have the Muslim refugees bombed if the UN asked NATO to carry out airstrikes. However, people in Pale, the capital of the self-proclaimed Republic of Serbia, are saying quite the opposite.

Commentary: Here are the victors, Serb soldiers, filmed a few weeks ago as they surrounded Srebrenica. According to their leader General Mladic and I quote, “the town was liberated last night,” and, I’m still quoting, “we can no longer tolerate the Muslims committing acts of terror against the Serb people.” But the people living in terror are the Muslims who have assembled around the Dutch peacekeepers’ headquarters in the village of Potocari 15 kilometres further north. Our journalist has managed to contact the Médecins Sans Frontières team who are with them.

MSF: Over 20,000 people have assembled in a razed village. There is no shelter and distraught people are subjected to appalling sanitary conditions. The children, their faces haunted, sit on the ground. There are no shelters, little water, no food for them to eat and we have a big problem due to the shortage of drugs in the small makeshift hospital set up in the UNPROFOR compound.

Commentary: This morning, the leader of the Bosnian Serbs Radovan Karadzic stated that the refugees are free to stay or leave. They won’t be hurt but the Serbs aren’t going to leave Srebrenica. UN General Secretary Boutros Boutros-Ghali has proclaimed that this is not a failure on the part of the UN and that the peacekeepers’ priority is now on looking after the refugees. But who are we to believe? The Serbs captured 20 more Dutch peacekeepers this morning and now it’s the turn of the enclave in Zepa to be attacked. Cynicism rules supreme in this war.

Journalist: Our journalist has managed to get hold of Stephan Oberreit, MSF’s coordinator in Belgrade. This is what he had to say.

Stephan Oberreit: “On one side, women and children being loaded onto busses, and on the other, men separated from their families. Obviously, people were in a state of panic. There were tears, there was crying and, when they left, it was to an unknown destination. They were given no assurances about where they were being taken. Otherwise, the situation in Potocari is the same and there are still lots of people there. Their situation is dire because they don’t know what’s going to happen to them. This has to be put into context – three years spent in an enclave, several days of brutal violence and now very little water or food and abysmal sanitary conditions. It’s a very small area, with absolutely no sewage. Humanitarian organisations must be given access to these people urgently.”

TV journalist: Good evening. According to the NATO Secretary General, the Muslim enclave in Srebrenica is definitively lost, a view not shared by Paris. We’ll go back to that in a minute. In any event, the leaders of the Serbs militias on the ground are methodically carrying out what the UNHCR spokesperson has called one of the biggest ethnic cleansing operations in the history of this tragic war. Stéphane Manier reports on exclusively Serb images.

Commentary: These people are safe, at least for the time being. They’re being held in concrete hangars intended for military planes near Tuzla airport, one of the five remaining Muslim enclaves. Their faces are anxious, exhausted, stunned, not even the smallest sign of relief at being still alive. They’re suffering from dehydration and malnutrition, and some are passing out. There are only women, children and elderly people, and a few casualties being looked after by the peacekeepers. The Serbs got the ones capable of walking through the tunnel that marks the frontline off the buses a few hundred metres before and told them to “run for it.” That’s ethnic cleansing. From now on, you’ll only be seeing images filmed by Serb cameras, the only ones authorised in the small village of Potocari where the refugees left from. General Mladic, the Serb military commander, is shown as a sensitive man, handing out chocolate and reassuring people as he himself organises the exodus. "Get on the buses, nobody will hurt you,” he says. But you won’t see the tearing apart of families as they’re separated, or the money that Serb soldiers demand before allowing them to leave, or the men over the age of 16 who are taken to a stadium for interrogation. The Serbs consider anyone suspected of carrying a weapon a war criminal. Some are exchanged for prisoners, others don’t come back, we’ll never know how many, there were no records kept in Srebrenica. That’s ethnic cleansing too. But these images also show peacekeepers becoming auxiliaries to this ethnic cleansing in an effort to avoid panic. Mladic spares them no humiliation and refuses their timid request to put one UN worker on each bus. We also see General Mladic making his triumphant entrance into Srebrenica two days before and his embracing of the victors. "Srebrenica will never be a UN protected area ever again; the town is Serb now," proclaims Radovan Karadzic. The camera films several burning houses but no corpses, no people, nor the seriously injured the Serbs have brought back to Srebrenica and forbidden to leave. This is ethnic cleansing, and it is on this that Greater Serbia is being inexorably and ruthlessly founded.

TV journalist: A demonstration is being held at 3 pm tomorrow at the Communards’ Wall in Père Lachaise cemetery in Paris to condemn this latest ethnic cleansing. Now over to Gilles Rabine, live from Sarajevo. Gilles, a simple question, how is the fall of Srebrenica perceived by the Muslim population in Sarajevo?

Gilles Rabine: You know, the fall of Srebrenica is perceived with much bitterness and a feeling of having been betrayed by the UN, because the Bosnians in Srebrenica played the game, they let themselves be disarmed and put themselves under the protection of the UN. As for the rest, the diplomatic posturing beginning to take shape, people stopped commenting on it a long time ago. You know, the inhabitants of Sarajevo have been in a state of siege for 39 months, 39 months during which they’ve heard and expected it all, hoped in vain that their fate would improve. Nobody in Europe has been subjected to such a siege or nightmare in over 150 years. Tomorrow or the next day it’ll be Zepa that’ll fall into Serb hands and then Gorazde perhaps; it’s hard to see the UN preventing the Serbs from trying to take Zepa. So the inhabitants of Sarajevo have had it with all the questions, they’ve had it with being filmed, being photographed, they’re tired of being watched as they die live on TV with nothing being done to rescue them. What do you want them to say? Other than they’re right?

TV journalist: Our guest is Rony Brauman. Rony Brauman, a year ago you were still head of Médecins Sans Frontières. You’ve now been able to get a little bit of distance. Do you think the decisions taken by lawyer Henri Leclerc on behalf of the League of Human Rights and the Polish prime minister to condemn the UN and its incapacity to confront the barbarity of the Serbs are helpful decisions?

Rony Brauman: Yes, I particularly think that Mr Mazowiecki’s resignation – well, it’s not for me to judge the League of Human Rights’ decision, which will have to show if it’s legally admissible –, but of course, I understand the rationale. But Mr Mazowiecki’s resignation, who throughout the conflict showed courage, loyalty and determination in standing up to the inertia and cynicism of the UN, is proof that the fiction and the sham have been smashed by the evidence in Bosnia. I think there’s a very close link between Mazowiecki’s resignation and the process of the gradual lifting of the embargo that’s being decided in the United States. This is when we realise that this sort of diplomatic and humanitarian arrangement, an arrangement with virtual soldiers as one perceptive observer put it, doesn’t work anymore.

TV journalist: Does this mean that you, Rony Brauman, the defender of the humanitarian cause, are pro-war?

Rony Brauman: I’m not pro-war. War exists, and I have to live with it like everyone else.

TV journalist: But this isn’t about taking action after war, but making war.

Rony Brauman: It’s about making war for those already fighting on the ground. I don’t think western democracies or the world’s powerful countries can go and fight in Bosnia for objectives they aren’t able to properly define. But, what I see is that, in the name of a humanitarian ideal, in the name of a very honourable aspiration for a peaceful resolution to the conflict, we have skewed the balance of power, tied the Bosnians’ hands behind their backs and paved the way for the Serb aggressor. It must be remembered that peace starts first with a trial of strength before going on to become a concept. Well, this trial of strength needs to be restored and I think that lifting the embargo, this increasing support, this process that is a move towards re-establishing the balance of power, could therefore possibly offer the Bosnians a resolution to the conflict.

TV journalist: And the withdrawal of the UNPROFOR, if the embargo were to be lifted.

Rony Brauman: That goes without saying. As it is now, the UNPROFOR is meaningless.

TV journalist: Does Polish Prime Minister Mazowiecki’s decision, and thus a politician’s decision, reconcile you the humanitarian with the politicians who often instrumentalise you on the ground?

Rony Brauman: Generally speaking, I don’t have a problem with politicians but I do with those who use humanitarian aid as a kind of media gadget, a communications technique that absolves them from assuming their political responsibilities. That’s what I and quite a few other humanitarians criticise. But thank goodness for people like Mazowiecki and others like him, in governments and in positions that are difficult, because nobody can claim to have the key to the conflict in Bosnia; that’s simply not true, it’s a lie. We don’t live in cloud cuckoo land anymore. So it’s a complex issue and western governments don’t have a ready solution to solve it. On the other hand, they can facilitate a process through which this balance of power could be restored and, consequently, a political solution negotiated. Mr Mazowiecki is one of these people and I find his decision extremely courageous.

TV journalist: One last question. Although it doesn’t really look like it, last year you gave up Médecins Sans Frontières.

Rony Brauman: As president.

TV journalist: As president, so you’ve taken a step back, so to speak. Rwanda last year, and now Bosnia. Isn’t there part of you that wants to throw up your hands and say, "it’s just not possible anymore”?

Rony Brauman: You know, I’ve been working in humanitarian aid for almost 20 years and there’s never been a today or a tomorrow. There have always been several emergencies, major tragedies, happening at the same time, but that’s pretty much the history of humanity. The history of humanity is made up of conflicts and horror but also of people who try to fight them and the horror in their own way, using their own methods. I don’t think the situation today is any more tragic.

TV journalist: Hello. Pierre Salignon from Médecins Sans Frontières is with us. Thank you for coming in. You were there not long ago. A Médecins Sans Frontières plane left on Friday; where is it now and what is it doing?

Pierre Salignon: It’s at the airport in Banja Luka. It has delivered 30 tonnes of supplies, mainly sanitation logistics. This is on top of the equipment we’ve managed to bring in by road – drugs and medical supplies for the 150,000 people on the roads around Banja Luka.

TV journalist: There are 150,000 people? There’s talk they may be 200,000. How can so many people be helped in such a small area?

Pierre Salignon: This is a whole group of people who left in a panic. They’re advancing towards Banja Luka, the main town in the region. A column of refugees very quickly went in the direction of Serbia, mostly because people didn’t want to stay in Bosnia as the men among them are scared of being forcibly conscripted or because they wanted to get away from what they’d been subjected to. They’re on their way to Serbia, which we know is blocked. As for what we can do for them, we have prepared health posts along the road so that our mobile teams can treat and provide people with assistance and give them water, food and drugs.

TV journalist: I suppose the closure of the border we saw on the early morning news poses a very serious problem?

Pierre Salignon: A very serious problem indeed. These people have been on the road for several days already and the longer the situation lasts, the greater the risk of a humanitarian emergency. It’s humanly urgent to do something, not only to assist these people but also to find a solution. The solution is re-opening the border with Serbia, but it’s not up to us to say, given that it’s ethnic partitioning that’s causing the population displacements we’re witnessing. So we’re seeing people being re-settled in Kosovo, in Voïvodine, in east Bosnia in areas that have been cleansed; I’m referring here to Srebrenica. All we can do is acknowledge the unacceptable.

TV journalist: We’re seeing a real partitioning. Each camp is positioning its pawns, and these pawns are human beings.

Pierre Salignon: Exactly. And we’re not hearing much about the non-Serb community around Banja Luka. There are 30,000 of them in a zone that was cleansed in 1992; we haven’t forgotten the Omarska concentration camps. These people are the victims now with the arrival of these refugees. They’re returning with quite a lot of hate against them. They’re showing up at their houses, making them leave and forcing them to take to the road. There’s been some brutality. All we can do is acknowledge that the ethnic partition – in effect sought by the international community because it didn’t assume its responsibilities and in 1991 accepted this method for restabilising borders in Europe – is happening now and is almost over.

TV journalist: Ultimately, should this partitioning, which is visibly happening really fast as we’re seeing with these very substantial population movements, be concluded before winter?

Pierre Salignon: It’s obvious that a fourth or fifth winter is going to be problematic for the region. I think that’s why diplomatic efforts are being deployed so quickly. I’m
thinking more particularly of the enclaves – Gorazde, Sarajevo, Tuzla. Another winter in these areas is going to be a major problem and the international community needs to find solutions, and fast.

TV journalist: Three weeks ago you were in Srebrenica, which hardly gets a mention anymore. It looks like the latest emergency pushes the previous one onto the back burner.

Pierre Salignon: Yes, you’re right. But on the human level, it’s clear that Srebrenica is nothing like what’s happening in Krajina. People are suffering, so I have no wish to enter into a hierarchy of horror, but Srebrenica was an enclave, which isn’t the case for the people in Krajina who are in areas taken and cleansed by the Serbs in 1991. Srebrenica was an enclave besieged for three years. We know how that ended – with the forced deportation of almost 30,000 people and up to 10,000 still unaccounted for.

TV journalist: The Americans are saying there are mass graves near Srebrenica. We must exercise extreme caution, but we’ve seen pictures in some of our newspapers this weekend. Do you think there’s any truth in it? There are said to be 3,000 bodies buried in different locations.

Pierre Salignon: All I can say is that our team stayed right up to the end, until all the people they had access to in Srebrenica were evacuated. They weren’t witness to actual massacres, but they did see civilians being bombed, forcibly displaced and men being separated from women and children. It’s plain that 2,000 or 3,000 or 4,000 people – the figures are relatively high and rising –, as many as 10,000 are missing. We even have men missing from among our staff. We know that our team heard automatic gunfire long after the population was assembled in Potocari. There’s serious concern about what happened to these people, especially as the ICRC has still no access. They’ve visited some of the detention centres but not all of them. So we’re seriously worried about the fate of these 12 to 60 year-old men.

TV journalist: Good evening Pierre Salignon. You are responsible for former Yugoslavia at Médecins Sans Frontières. I would first like to ask you how these accounts were recorded.

Pierre Salignon: These accounts were recorded in the Tuzla region, at the time of the fall of Srebrenica, during the month of August. We met these people after they left the enclave. Most were refugees. We knew a lot of them because we worked with them for over two years in the hospital in the enclave in Srebrenica, or we’d come across them in our operations we had in Srebrenica. The stories they told us are so dire and shocking that we decided to make them public to try and set the record straight about what happened in Srebrenica.

TV journalist: So the proof of their credibility is that you knew them and because around ten of the survivors told similar stories?

Pierre Salignon: Exactly.

TV journalist: How many people are missing?

Pierre Salignon: The numbers put about vary between 5,000 and 8,000, mainly men separated from their families in Potocari or who fled through the forest and of whom we have no news. The ICRC has only been able to see 200 of them so far, which is really making us concerned about what could have happened to them.

TV journalist: And we shouldn’t forget there have been massacres – on both sides.

Pierre Salignon: Yes, and MSF condemns acts committed against civilians, regardless of who perpetrates them. On this subject, I want to make something really clear. In the case of the fall of Srebrenica, it’s the logical conclusion of a process of ethnic cleansing begun in 1993 and now ending with the deportation of more than 30,000 people to Tuzla and 6,000 to 8,000 missing men.

TV journalist: Meaning, you have to compare what’s comparable?

Pierre Salignon: Right, yes.

TV journalist: One last question. You’re obviously continuing your work in former Yugoslavia and in other places in the world, and to bear witness. What do you need to be able to carry on?

Pierre Salignon: What we need is the public’s support, so that we can take action on the ground, care for people and carry on bearing witness like we did for Srebrenica. It’s the public that gives us the means to do it.

Journalist: Françoise Bouchet Saulnier is Médecins Sans Frontières’ Legal Director. The association lost 22 of its staff in Srebrenica. She explained to Luc Lemonnier that the French parliamentary fact-finding mission is not good enough.

Françoise Bouchet Saulnier: There’s no way parliament can move forward without the government fully cooperating in terms of access to the archives and not just to people. We’ve already seen quite a number of those being interviewed having memory lapses just when it really matters.

Journalist: Regarding the tragic events in Srebrenica, do you think France has a responsibility that it’s now trying to hide?

Françoise Bouchet Saulnier: That isn’t our intention at all. Right now, we’re unfortunately forced to speculate on the causes of the deaths of 8,000 people and, in my view, it’s not worthy of a democracy and definitely not worthy of the investigation that is needed into the effectiveness of the peacekeeping operations. Let’s not forget that the United Nations General Secretary has called on member states, which include France, to conduct an investigation into Srebrenica and for that investigation to be worthy of a democracy. For the moment, we’re not really making any progress with that. We’re not making any pre-judgements regarding France’s military engagement in the Bosnian conflict but the question now is to determine how we can shed light on a tragedy that cost 7,000 people their lives.

TV journalist: Collective responsibility for a massacre. It is estimated that in 1995 Serb troops executed at least 7,000 civilians in three days in Bosnian town Srebrenica. The parliamentary fact-finding mission has now submitted its report – a conclusion that is also an admission of failure. Julien Colombani explains.

Commentary: He triumphed, Ratko Mladic, as his troops entered the Muslim enclave in Srebrenica on July 11 1995. The Commanding General of the Bosnian Serbs ordered that the men be separated from the women, children and the elderly who were deported. The men were executed. 8,000 deaths, the worst massacre committed in Europe since World War II. The 300 Dutch UN peacekeepers in Srebrenica could do nothing. But, during the first hours of the attack, they had asked General Bernard Janvier, the French head of the UN peacekeeping force in Bosnia, to order airstrikes to stop the Serbs. A vain effort. Why? Years later, at the request of Médecins Sans Frontières, a parliamentary fact-finding mission tried to probe the extent of France’s responsibility. This morning it presented its report and emphasised the errors committed by all the countries represented in the UN force.

François Loncle: We have exonerated no one, but we are not accusing anyone in particular, except the two major war criminals.

Commentary: But some of the parliamentarians still have doubts. A few days before the fall of Srebrenica, 376 French peacekeepers who were Serb hostages, were freed. Did France make a trade-off – the hostages in exchange for no military intervention?

Pierre Brana: The minority, and I’m one of them, are saying we have no proof of a deal so we can’t be sure. There may or may not have been a deal. General Janvier or the civilian authorities may have made one. We have no proof either way.

Jean-Hervé Bradol: There are two parts to the conclusions in the report. It highlights the military responsibility while shrouding the political responsibility.

Commentary: Everyone acknowledges that this responsibility is far from being elucidated. It’s going to take a lot more will and time to understand, "Why Srebrenica?"

TV journalist: Serbia is confronting its past. The Serb Parliament has, for the first time, officially condemned the 1995 Srebrenica massacre that left 8,000 dead. The survivors regret that the term ‘genocide’ hasn’t been used but the gesture is appreciated by Europe, which will now examine Serbia’s application.

Commentary: Portraits of Radovan Karadzic and Ratko Mladic, commander of the Bosnian-Serb army, which perpetrated the massacre in 1995. The Serb far-right wants to stage a demonstration in front of the parliament.

Serb extremist: These war crimes were committed by individuals, not a nation. Individuals should be judged, not a nation.

Commentary: This not the opinion of the majority of the parliament. After 13 hours of debate, the Serb parliament voted a resolution condemning the Srebrenica massacre and presented its apologies to the families of the victims.

Nenead Canak: This is only the beginning. It’s just the tip of the iceberg of a past that we must confront as these war crimes are not a legacy we should leave to future generations.

Commentary: July 1995, as war raged in former Yugoslavia and the Serbs in Bosnia began ethnic cleansing of the Bosnian Muslims, Srebrenica was declared a safe area. The peacekeepers were there, as was General Ratko Mladic. After evacuating the women and children, the Serb militias massacred over 8,000 people. In 2004, this slaughter was found to constitute genocide by the International Criminal Tribunal for Former Yugoslavia. In Sarajevo, Bosnia, this belated recognition by the Serb state was deemed insufficient.

Woman: I’m disappointed. 15 years on, and the Serbs are still not calling a spade a spade. Genocide is far more than a crime.

Commentary: This is a major step for Serbia on its path to Europe, which is still waiting for Belgrade’s full cooperation regarding the arrest of Ratko Mladic.